{"id":66,"date":"2015-02-26T17:15:02","date_gmt":"2015-02-27T01:15:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/?page_id=66"},"modified":"2015-03-10T15:46:06","modified_gmt":"2015-03-10T22:46:06","slug":"annotation-hobbes-and-talons-ramist-rhetoric-in-english","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/walter-ong-bibliography\/articles-1950-1959\/annotation-hobbes-and-talons-ramist-rhetoric-in-english\/","title":{"rendered":"Annotation: Hobbes and Talon&#8217;s Ramist Rhetoric in English"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In this article, the first reflecting Ong&#8217;s Ph.D. work, Ong asserts that while there are many Latin editions of <i>Rhetorica<\/i> by Omer Talon (Peter Ramus&#8217; collaborator), there is only one recognized English translation of it, so the discovery of an English rhetoric textbook series, published in five editions between 1584 and 1681 and which include adaptations of <i>Rhetorica<\/i>, is very important.\u00a0 This discovery is especially important because the last of the editions is attributed to Thomas Hobbes rather than Talon, a mistake that leads Ong to ask the question:\u00a0 Was Hobbes a Ramist?<\/p>\n<p>Before Ong answers this question, however, he traces the attribution of Talon&#8217;s work to Hobbes, which begins with a book published in 1651, <i>A Compendium of the Art of Logick and Rhetorick . . . <\/i>.\u00a0 In this book, three pieces appeared:\u00a0 <i>The Two Books of Peter Ramus His Dialectica<\/i>, a reprint of Ramus&#8217; Latin <i>Dialectica; A Brief of the Art of Rhetoric [of] Aristotle<\/i>, which was the work of Hobbes (at least the Latin original was); and <i>The Art of Rhetorick Plainly Set Forth . . . <\/i>, which is said to be anonymous.\u00a0 The third piece is, in fact, a reprint of Dudley Fenner&#8217;s English adaptation of Talon&#8217;s <i>Rhetorica<\/i>, but in a 1681 edition of a book <i>The Art of Rhetoric<\/i>, in which <i>The Art of Rhetorick Plainly Set Forth . . .\u00a0<\/i> appears with two other pieces (<i>The Whole Art of Rhetorick<\/i> by Hobbes and <i>A Dialogue between a Phylosopher and a Student of the Common-Laws of England<\/i>, authorship not identified by Ong), Fenner&#8217;s adaptation is attributed to Hobbes because the editor assumed that both <i>A Brief of the Art of Rhetoric [of] Aristotle<\/i> and <i>The Art of Rhetorick Plainly Set Forth . . .\u00a0<\/i> in the 1651 <i>Compendium<\/i> were by Hobbes.<\/p>\n<p>After tracing this line of development, Ong addresses the question:\u00a0 Was Hobbes at least Ramist enough to have his work confused with Fenner&#8217;s (who was Ramist in his thinking)?\u00a0 To answer this question, Ong returns to <i>A Briefe of the Art of Rhetorique<\/i>, the Latin original that we know was written by Hobbes.\u00a0 In this work, Ong believes, Hobbes does reveal himself to be Ramist &#8220;at heart,&#8221; committed to the idea that all human activities could be tied to logic rather than the Aristotleian idea that some human activities escape logic.\u00a0 First, Hobbes adopts Ramus&#8217; definition of an enthymeme while claiming to summarize Aristotle (whose definition of an enthymeme was very different).\u00a0 Then, he adopts the Ramist idea of &#8220;method.&#8221;\u00a0 And finally, the fact that Hobbes writes a &#8220;brief&#8221; in the first place reveals the Ramist tendency to make difficult discourse easier for readers.<\/p>\n<p>Attributing the work of Fenner and the ideas of Talon to Hobbes, Ong concludes, is not &#8220;accidental,&#8221; for the mindset of Hobbes encouraged such a mistake.<\/p>\n<div align=\"right\"><a href=\"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/walter-ong-bibliography\/articles-1950-1959#hobbesand\">Return to Listings<\/a><\/div>\n<hr width=\"100%\" \/>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this article, the first reflecting Ong&#8217;s Ph.D. work, Ong asserts that while there are many Latin editions of Rhetorica by Omer Talon (Peter Ramus&#8217; collaborator), there is only one recognized English translation of it, so the discovery of an English rhetoric textbook series, published in five editions between 1584 and 1681 and which include &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/walter-ong-bibliography\/articles-1950-1959\/annotation-hobbes-and-talons-ramist-rhetoric-in-english\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Annotation: Hobbes and Talon&#8217;s Ramist Rhetoric in English<\/span> <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":21,"featured_media":0,"parent":61,"menu_order":5,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":"","_links_to":"","_links_to_target":""},"class_list":["post-66","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/page"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/21"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=66"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/66\/revisions"}],"up":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/pages\/61"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/faculty.lmu.edu\/mollyyoungkin\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=66"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}